Matt,
I was born in 1966. When I started the game, using the Holmes
Basic rules, there was no one else I knew who had ever picked up the game.
Later, I spent four years in the US
Army. I have lived in Missouri,
Louisiana, Virginia, California, Wisconsin, and Ontario, both in major cities
(Milwaukee, Los Angeles, Toronto) and in rural communities (I spent half my
childhood in Pembine, Wisconsin, near the border to Upper Peninsula Michigan,
with my nearest neighbour being a 5 mile walk away).
I have moved a lot. I have had to seek out new groups a lot as a
result. Usually, I have had to form
groups.
So, yes, I understand having to find a
group. I do not equate that with begging
around, cap in hand, asking players Oliver Twist style, “Please, Sirs, can I
run some more?”
Players are not a captive audience. They may choose to play or choose not to
play. I have never had a problem finding
players, or getting players to choose to play.
That may be because of simple luck, or it may be because of the way that
I approach the game itself, but I have run games for a lot of different people
in a lot of different places.
Toronto is a Pathfinder town. Running a game in a store, which I have done
several times last year as part of the DCC World Tour 2013, is a challenge
because you are directly competing with what is the most popular game in town,
and in some cases competing with the hype surrounding D&D Next.
When I switched to DCC from the homebrewed
game I was working on, RCFG, I lost three good players because they preferred the
other game. They were more interested in
games with strong character generation sub-games. That is completely okay. Players are not a captive audience. In my philosophy, every player should seek
the game he or she most desires to play in, and every GM should run the game
they wish to run. Now, of course, there
is a lot of interplay between these two positions, and the GM hopefully wishes
to run the game the players wish to play in, just as the players hopefully wish
to play in the game they are presented with.
In your response on Tao, you said
It doesn't even take the entire table to undermine me
as a DM. I tried to run a game where plague and disease would play a major part
in the campaign. I was trying to build an atmosphere with some gloom and some despair.
The characters were going to be fighting vampires and necromancers and cultists
and such. Some of my players bought in. Two didn't. They decided they would be at
the table, but they weren't playing my game. "Oh, sickness is the problem?
Lets start a Laundromat! I'll play an Asian stereotype sorcerer and I'll start
a magic dry cleaning business. Want to help?" "Sure! I'll help out
your business. Lets go about town washing clothes and fixing disease."
and I have to wonder how that is not
playing your game. It is my core belief
that the GM devises setting, including the opportunity to interact with things
like vampires, necromancers, and disease, and the players determine how they
will approach that setting and those opportunities. Likewise, it seems obvious to me that some
players are going to resist an atmosphere of gloom and despair. But I do not see this as a failure to buy in;
I see this as an acceptable decision within the scope of the milieu.
In other words, there is a difference between
“Here is an opportunity to fight necromancers” and “You will be fighting
necromancers”. If the “disease” is the
result of necromancy and the undead, how effective is a Laundromat going to be,
really? Discovering that the problem is
not so easily solved might well have provided you with a gloomier atmosphere
than if they had immediately sought out Count Orlock.
And sure, I could have kicked them out, but they were
half my group. They were friends. They were some of the only players I had.
Were my other players pissed? Sure. They thought they'd get to play a gloomy
dark vampire hunting game, and instead two players were pissing all over it
with a joke.
I wasn’t there, but I don’t think that any
form of player resistance to the opening status quo of a campaign milieu is “pissing
all over it” – it is, rather, an attempt to control the direction of the
game. Players should be doing that. And no matter how much they attempt to make
light, the GM should continue to offer context, allow choices, and enforce
consequences.
What would have happened if you had allowed
the players to resolve their own internal conflicts? When two players want to do one thing in a
game I run, and two players want to do another, who gets to decide – or even if
the group splits up – is a player decision to make. It is not my job to force a consensus, and it
is not my right to tell them that they must decide this or that.
What if you had let them joke, but didn’t
change the context in which their choices were being made? I mean, literally, what if you didn’t let the
jokes rattle you, and you continued to play it seriously? What if, rather than simply allowing that
reaction to ruin the game, you used it to highlight the darkness? Eventually, the number of un-dead would grow,
the disease would become worse, and the PCs would be forced to do something,
even if “doing something” means flee to another town or continue obliviously
until they drowned in a sea of walking corpses.
See, I don’t see “kick them out” or “trash
the game” as the only solutions here. I
see the best solution as “accept their decisions, but that doesn’t change the
milieu until they do something to change it.”
I also think that the players should be trying to change the milieu to
their benefit. But the milieu, not their
desire, determines how difficult that is.
While your game milieu will include many
potential adventure sites, I think it is important to envision a setting in
which adventure occurs, rather than specific actions/adventures which will
occur. The PCs should always have the
ability to opt out, but putting that option to the test should always include
whatever consequences are appropriate to the milieu. If you choose not to go to White Plume
Mountain, nothing happens to you. If you
choose not to pay attention to the growing legion of un-dead where you live,
there are likely to be harsher consequences.
That lasted for an hour or two before I quit. I sent
everyone home. I trashed the campaign. I forget what we ended up playing after
that but I had been running 4th edition D&D during that period of my gaming
so it was probably some high powered fantasy loot-explosion bullshit. I hate
that kind of game but I ran it because that's what kept my players coming back
to the table and quite frankly I needed the creative outlet more than they
needed the dice rolling so I ran their game and tried to build a world around
it until despite my efforts I lost friends and players anyway.
 |
| I got older |
You should never run a game that you do not
enjoy. Life is too short for that. The world is filled with creative
outlets. Some of them even offer
remuneration.
But, look at it this way: If the players have all of the power in the
equation, and the bullshit game is what keeps them coming back to the table, it
follows that you have to run the bullshit game or have no players.
But that is not what happened. Instead, attempting to cater to the tastes of
others while ignoring what you wanted caused you to lose friends and players
anyway. And what actually happened?
You had a milieu in which you had considered
what choices the players had, what the context was, and what the potential
consequences would be. Even if two of
the players made choices you had not considered, they were engaging with that
milieu in so doing. Had you stayed the
course – allowing them to operate their side of the screen (choices) while you
operated yours (context and consequence), the natural consequences of ignoring
the context of the milieu would have affected player choices over the course of
time.
You might not have gotten exactly what you
were expecting – nothing ever is once a human element is added – but you would
have gotten much better than what you settled for. And, honestly, so would your players. No one is at their best running a game they
dislike.
So I begged the remains of the players to play a game
that I would enjoy running and I tried my damnedest to keep it interesting
because I was out of options. If I couldn't get them to buy in I had no
players.
Listen.
I’m not going to proclaim my insights to be brilliant. I am not going to claim that I express myself
with the EXACT words needed in all cases.
I am not going to claim that my way is the right way, or the only way,
or that your experience cannot differ from mine. I am not even going to claim that if you
disagree you must not be listening. I
leave those kinds of claims to others. I
am interested in a dialogue, not a monologue with a chorus.
Perhaps I come from a privileged position,
because I have never had to beg players to play in the games that I ran, and I
never expected anyone to beg me to play.
Nor have I ever had anyone come to me, cap in hand, begging to run a
game. Why would they? If the game is worth playing, you don’t have
to beg.
You had a game that you believed was worth
playing. And you trashed it because of
an hour or two of frustration. Players
always need to find their feet, to learn the rules of a campaign milieu, when
they jump into a new game. Some players
will always want to test the GM, to ensure that they are actually able to make
unexpected choices in the game milieu.
Some players will always attempt something suicidal with a new GM, just
to gauge whether or not the dice will fall where they may. These things are normal.
And the result of believing that the
players should decide what you run was not very happy, was it? The high powered fantasy loot-explosion was
not what you wanted? Didn’t you have to run
what you wanted to be happy?
Again, I’m not Einstein. I don’t have some pretensions to being an intellectual
übermensch, so take this with a grain of
salt: You decided that you didn’t want to play that way, and then offered the
players something you wanted to do, and they agreed to do it. You might have felt like you were begging
when you brought it up, but would you have continued running bang-pow-loot
if they had said No to your ideas?
If you would have, then, Yup. They have all the power. If you would not have, then congratulations!
because you both have power in that relationship. The players can force the GM's game to end,
but the GM cannot force the players to play.
Likewise, the GM can force the players' game to end, but the players
cannot force the GM to run. A
relationship – any relationship – where one side has all the power is dysfunctional.
It is my unsolicited advice to you to avoid
dysfunctional relationships, and to be very cautious about accepting the
conclusion – from anyone, no matter how well-meaning they might be – that the
only way to be in any particular type of relationship is to accept that it is
going be dysfunctional. This applies, of
course, not only to gaming, but to all of life.
PS: If you read Alexis' response, you will note that he said that GMs who view players as disposable are not trying to build a team, but trying to gather worshippers. Or words to that effect.
Imagine that you wanted to play a game of Risk. You invite some friends. Some are into it, and some are not, but the invitation is definitely to play Risk. Are you building worshippers, or are you getting together a group who has an interest in a particular sort of game? Is your friend who wants to go out with his significant other that night no longer your friend? Do you stop going out to see movies with your other friend who isn't into boardgames because he won't let you dictate that he plays Risk on Tuesday? Are you even trying to dictate what he does on Tuesday? Or are you offering an option?
In other words, is it the people who are replaceable, or their role as players? Because the first is a problem, and the second, IMHO, is not. In the second case, you can go fishing with them on Sunday after the game.
Personally, I don't like to demand that people agree with me. But I do like to take on memes that seem likely to increase dysfunction. This is one of them. And I do suggest that you take a look at the research link that Alexis provided. When you read about how the research describes destructive leadership, do you think that he has nailed it, or do you think that he has extended the definition rather far from what the authors indicated?
All of these questions, by the way, are real questions. I am curious about what you think.